This was an assignment based on this story
Who: Samuel Wilson, 10 years old
What: died after being crushed between subway cars. He was playing with his friends on the platform in between the cars.
When: Saturday afternoon, late 1960s
Where: The Bronx, NYC
Why: Another passenger pulled the emergency cord, the train stopped suddenly, and Samuel was not holding on
INTERVIEWS
The Brave Man (Ronald Erickson)
The Lady Who Watched (Betty Gilford)
Samuel's Mother (Manuela Wilson)
Interview Transcripts
Ronald Erickson
Q. Mr. Erickson, thank you for meeting with me today to discuss this tragic event. You were there before and after the incident where the young boy – Samuel Wilson – died. How are you feeling now?
A. Well, you know, all things considered, I'm doin' alright. It was very sad that the kid died, but what can you do? He was doin' something pretty stupid.
Q. Did you know the kids at all?
A. I'd seen 'em around the neighbourhood, but we didn't know each other. They reminded me of me, in a way. I used to do stupid things like that when I was a kid.
Q. OK. Could you explain?
A. Well, you know how kids are. Full of life, free and wild. When I was a boy, I jumped from the roof of one moving truck to another, like loggers do. We would meet somewhere, and some of us, the ones who were braver, would ride the trucks to another meeting place. It doesn't compare to playing in between the subway cars, but I was a lot older than those boys when I did it. You can't imitate the rush that you get when you're doing something like that.
Q. Do you think it was the kids' fault that something so tragic happened?
A. Well, like I said, they were doing something pretty stupid. But it doesn't mean that it was their fault. Boys will be boys, and nothing can change that.
Q. Did you ever get hurt when you were jumping from truck to truck?
A. I don't have any serious injuries, but I did have some close calls. One time I almost fell off when a truck was turning a corner. Almost had a heart attack, that time.
Q. How is your life now?
A. Oh, my life is good. I finished high school a little late, but I finished. I married my oldest friend, and we have two beautiful little girls at home. I have a good job managing an auto shop, and I'm studying at night right now to become a mechanical engineer.
Q. How have you been since the accident?
A. My emotions have been put through the wringer. I mean, I've seen some things – at the auto shop where I work, a guy ripped his arm right off – but never with kids. Kids aren't supposed to die so young, and not so bloody. First thing I did when I got home was hug my girls and kiss my wife as though tomorrow would never come. I can't imagine what the poor mother is feeling right now.
Q. Well, thank you very much for your time today, Mr. Erickson.
A. You're very welcome, miss.
Betty Gilford
Q. Hello, Mrs. Gilford, thank you for meeting with me today. You were there before and after this tragic accident where the young boy passed away. How are you feeling now?
A. Oh, I'm not doing very well. I went to the doctor, and he took my blood pressure, and it's through the roof. I'm feeling hot flashes, my friends tell me I'm red as a beet, and I haven't been able to eat very much since the incident. All I can think of is that young boy, laid out on the tracks, and that I could have done something to prevent his death. (voice breaks)
Q. What can you tell me about the events preceding the accident?
A. Well, I was there with a couple of my friends, just coming from our weekly brunch in Soho, when all of a sudden, these kids decide to play between the subway cars. Poor kids, their mothers must not have had any idea where they were. I wanted to tell them to shut up and sit down, but I was afraid of them. My son has a bully just like those kids and I know what they're capable of.
Q. But Mrs. Gilford, one of the other passengers on the train stated that you did do something to try to prevent the accident.
A. I did, but obviously it wasn't enough. I was afraid of them, you know. Three of them were Negroes, and one was something else, maybe Hispanic or something. They're not like us, you know. They're just – wilder or something. It's scary. I don't like them, in general. When I tried to get them to stop, one of them just replied with a "Yes'm," but that obviously didn't mean anything. And then they laughed at me, and that's when the accident happened.
Q. Mrs. Gilford, do you feel like you're responsible for the accident?
A. Well, the kids started coughing and whacking each other's backs after I tried to intervene. When they laughed and whacked each other's backs, they lost their balance – especially the leader, the one who was killed. So in a way, I am responsible for the death of that poor boy.
Q. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way.
A. I'm sorry that it happened. Except for my brunch with my girlfriends, I would have never gotten out of bed that day if I had known this was going to happen. I'll have to talk make an appointment with my therapist as soon as possible. I have a lot to tell him about the whole situation.
Q. Do you think you'll be able to work through this?
A. Oh, I think I'll be fine, with time. My girlfriends – the women I was with the day it happened – are great, supportive women and we'll work through it together.
Q. That's excellent news. This is, actually, all the time we have today, so I thank you for spending it with me.
A. You're very welcome. You seem like a wonderful young woman, so it was my pleasure.
Manuela Wilson
Q. Hello, Mrs. Wilson, and thank you for meeting with me today. My name is Sarah McMullin, and we're here to discuss the accident that took the life of your son, and your feelings surrounding that. Are you ready to begin?
A. (voice breaks) Yes.
Q. How are you today?
A. Oh, I'm doing ok, I guess. I miss my son.
Q. Before we begin, I'd like to ask you a few questions about Samuel, and about the family. How was Samuel as a boy?
A. Oh, he was a wonderful boy. Full of life, noisy, always had to do something with his hands or feet. He didn't do very well in school, because he didn't like books very much, but he always got along with his teachers. Especially when they asked him to build something, or talked about war machines or outer space. He was our only child. (voice breaks)
Q. What was Samuel like as a baby?
A. He was a good baby, but right at the beginning, he got sick often. He used to cry and cry and cry until we ran out of things to do for him. I guess that made us cherish him that much more when he got older.
Q. Other than Samuel, are there lots of children in the family?
A. There are lots of cousins, since my husband and I both come from large families. We did have plans to have more children. I guess we'll have to continue with those plans more than ever, to fill the hole that Samuel left behind, but in the meantime we'll be able to occupy ourselves with the nieces and nephews.
Q. How are you and your husband these days?
A. We'll be okay. My husband and I have been best friends since we were Samuel's age – he was once a boy just like Samuel – and we know exactly what we need at the right time. So we'll be comforting each other for the near future. My husband is considering taking time off work, but I don't know if we'll be able to afford to do that.
Q. Do you think you'll want to have more children?
A. Oh, definitely. My husband and I are both young, so we can definitely do that. I don't think we'll be able to replace our Samuel, though. His teachers and the family always said that he was one of a kind.
We want to buy a big house and fill it with the sounds of children.
Q. That sounds beautiful. I'd like to continue, but we're out of time. Thank you so much for meeting with me. I know it was hard for you, so I appreciate it very, very much.
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